Posts Tagged ‘candidacy’

New York Yankees Stars Andy Pettitte, Jorge Posada Increasing their Hall Chances

April 19th, 2010

If it were up to me, the baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown would be filled with nothing but Yankees, but fortunately for everyone else, the process is mostly fair.

Two players who have been longtime borderline candidates on the outside looking in, Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte, seem to be getting closer to enshrinement these days as they continue to be dominant even as other players their age are fading away.

Joel Sherman of the NY Post wrote about the pair and their hall chances this morning:

Some players hold on and damage their career stats and potentially hurt their Hall-of-Fame candidacies. But Pettitte and Jorge Posada are adding to their borderline arguments.

Pettitte is missing overall greatness. There was probably never a season in his outstanding career in which he was viewed as one of even the five best starters in the game, though he does have five top-six finishes in the Cy Young voting. He just is not a dominant pitcher. His candidacy is will be based on consistency, accumulation and a lot of strong postseason work. But his candidacy also is going to be hurt by his HGH admission. I suspect many voters will not vote for him based on that admission and/or because they believe his usage was far greater than Pettitte has conceded.

Posada already is among the best offensive catchers in history and also has the added value of being a central member of multiple championships. But he also is lacking overall dominance and his defense is going to be a question.

As a voter, I want to see the conclusion of their careers, obviously. But I currently think they both fall just short of the Cooperstown end zone; with Posada a better candidate currently in my mind than Pettitte.

But it is fascinating how many interesting candidates have been part of recent Yankee teams. You have Pettitte and Posada plus Bernie Williams, Johnny Damon, Mike Mussina and Bobby Abreu; and you can probably throw David Wells into the discussion since his overall numbers stack up pretty well against those of Pettitte. I am not sure any of them are getting in (I rank Mussina as having the best chance), but they all have put together the kinds of careers that will make you think seriously about their place in history.

Thoughts: I think Sherman is right, there has been a decently sized group of recent Yankees that are borderline candidates, and that includes Posada and Pettitte. As they stand right now they, even to a bias person such as myself, are still probably on the outside looking in.

But as they go deeper into their careers many players who were one time peers are dropping by the way-side. In the case of Posada, it seems to me that as he goes deeper into his career, guys who were once regarded as clearly better, I’m looking at Ivan Rodriguez, now don’t look that much better by comparison. Yes, obviously Pudge was once the much better player, but his offensive skills have long since declined, meanwhile Posada is still an important piece of a championship caliber squad. There has to be some value to that.

Like Sherman said, I’d like to see the conclusion of their careers before making a final judgment. Fortunately for their Hall chances, their careers are still going strong even as they are approaching their forties.

Related Stories

Read more MLB news on BleacherReport.com

Jack Morris: A Look at His Credentials for the Hall of Fame

January 10th, 2010

Jack Morris’ candidacy for the HOF has received some support.  The most recent vote showed him just over 50 percent for the first time.  Important writers like Jon Heyman, Buster Olney, and more have put their support behind his candidacy.

I thought it would be a valid study to see exactly where his candidacy falls in historical perspective and also within the era he pitched.

 

A Look at the Career 

Jack Morris pitched in the American league from ’77-’94.  Most of that time he pitched for the Detroit Tigers, but spent time near the end of his career with the Twins, Blue Jays, and Indians.  What sticks out most about Morris’ career is that he won consistently.  He won 14 or more games 13 of 14 years.  He put in significant innings during those years, making himself valuable to his team.

Morris helped his team to the postseason and the World Series on three occasions.  He was part of the ’84 Tigers championship team, the Twins title in ’91, and the Blue Jays pennant in ’92.  He posted a significant amount of postseason work.

Morris was a power pitcher, relying mostly on a fastball and slider.  He won 20 games three times during his career.  He could also be a bit wild.  He led his league in wild pitches six different years, and led the league in BB once.  He allowed over 80 BB in 11 seasons.

Morris was an important bridge between the great pitchers of the '70s and those of the '90s.

His pitching line looks like this:

254 W – 186 L; 3.90 ERA/ ERA+ 105; 175 CG/ 28 SHO; 3824 IP/ H/9 8.4; 2478 K/ K/BB ratio 1.78; WHIP 1.296

How does Morris fit for the HOF?

I believe it is important to look at the entire picture of a pitcher’s career to get an accurate reading on their qualifications for the HOF.  So we will look at all of the above categories to get an accurate assessment of where Jack Morris stands.

Contrary to many people’s beliefs, 300 wins is not the cut off line to be eligible for the HOF.  Three hundred wins is an automatic induction total.  It takes 200 wins to be considered.  Then the rest of the resume needs to put you in, or not. 

In Jack Morris’ case, he has an ample number of wins to be considered for the HOF.  It may be his strongest suit for induction.  But his win total needs further support from the rest of his resume.

The second most important category is ERA+.  Jack Morris ERA+ is 105.  That means his ERA against the league average was five percent better for his career.  This is better than the league average, but a very low total when it comes to candidacy for the HOF.  It would place him among the very lowest ERA+ figures among all HOF pitchers.

The next category is shutouts.  Morris came in with a nice total of complete games, 175, for the '80s, but tallied only 28 shutouts.  He pitched in an era where shutouts were still available.  He was finishing games, but not shutting down his opposition at a HOF level. Thirty shutouts are like 200 wins for the HOF—a beginning total.

His other categories vary in strength.  He has a strong strikeout total of 2,478, but it is not compelling for HOF induction like Seaver, Carlton, Blyleven, Ryan, Jenkins, Sutton, Neikro, Perry, and Gibson, who all topped 3,000 during the same era.  Frank Tanana and Mickey Lolich also had more Ks than Morris.

He has a nice career length—over 3,800 innings—but it is not a length of career that makes his work of an epic nature.  His H/9 of 8.4 is good.  His K/BB ratio is average at 1.78, because of his less than exemplary control.  His WHIP is relatively high at 1.296.  It is not awful, but far from compelling for the HOF.

A fair amount of Morris’ credentials for the HOF come from his performance in the postseason.  Especially compelling is his game seven performance in the ’91 World Series against the Atlanta Braves.  He shut down the Braves for more than a complete game to eventually bring home the win for his team.  It is a game many look at to show Morris’ greatness.

Morris’ actual postseason numbers look like this:

7W – 4L; 3.80 ERA, 92 IP/ 83 H/ 32 BB/ 64 K:  1.245 WHIP

While he did give one exceptional performance, his actual postseason numbers are very similar to his regular season stats.

Conclusion—Morris candidacy for the HOF hinges on how much weight you place on his 254 wins, a strong K total, and one game of postseason performance.

 

Morris’ Place in His Era

He was recently called the best pitcher of the decade of the '80s.  Without getting into proving or disproving this statement, let’s grant that he was one of the better pitchers of the 80s (he never won a Cy Young award).

But actually the heart of his era began after the pitching mound was lowered and divisional baseball started in ’69.  There were many great pitchers of this era, which goes to about ’92.  He was rightfully overshadowed by the great pitchers of the '70s—Seaver, Palmer, Perry, Ryan, Carlton, and more.  His career is more of a bridge between the great pitchers of the '70s and those of the '90s—Maddux, Glavine, Johnson, and Clemens.

The '80s was not a great decade for pitching.  So Morris is one of the best of a not so great decade of pitchers.

 

Does Morris Career Put Him over the Line for HOF Consideration?

This is the most important question.  First, his 254 wins make his career eligible for consideration.  Let’s see how his career lines up with those I consider true entry level HOF pitchers, and a couple of contemporaries with resumes also worthy of HOF consideration.

Let’s look at the most recent member of the HOF without 300 wins, Catfish Hunter, and a HOF member who was similar to Morris in that he was a consistent winner for a good team and had post season success, Red Ruffing.

In addition we will see the pitching lines for contemporaries of Jack Morris who had resumes for the HOF that didn’t make it, Luis Tiant, and Mickey Lolich.

Then we will add a look at Bert Blyleven’s resume, since a comparison of the two became relevant when Jon Heyman discussed his voting for Jack Morris over Bert Blyleven on the MLB network recently.

Catfish Hunter – 224W; 3.26 ERA/ ERA+104; 181 CG/ 42 SHO; 3449 IP/ 7.7 H/9; 2012 K/ 2.11 K/BB ratio; 1.134 WHIP; postseason – 9-6; 3.26 ERA; 132 IP/ 114H/ 35 BB/ 70 K; 1.126 WHIP

Red Ruffing – 273W; 3.80 ERA; ERA+ 109; 335 CG/ 45 SHO; 4344 IP/ 8.9 H/9; 1987 K/ 1.29 K/BB ratio; 1.341 WHIP; postseason – 7-2; 2.63 ERA; 85 IP/ 74H/ 27 BB/ 61 K; 1.179 WHIP

Jack Morris – 254W; 3.90 ERA/ ERA+ 105; 175 CG/ 28 SHO; 3824 IP/ 8.4 H/9; 2478 K/ 1.78 K/BB ratio; 1.296 WHIP; postseason – 7-4; 3.80 ERA; 92 IP/ 83 H/ 32 BB/ 64 K; 1.245 WHIP

Luis Tiant – 229W; 3.30 ERA/ ERA+ 114; 187 CG; 49 SHO; 3486 IP/ 7.9 H/9; 2416 K/ 2.19 K/BB ratio; 1.199 WHIP; post season – 3-0; 2.86 ERA; 34 IP/ 29 H/ 11 BB/ 20 K; 1.154 WHIP

Mickey Lolich – 217W; 3.44 ERA/ ERA+ 105; 195 CG/ 41 SHO; 3638 IP/ 8.3 H/9; 2832 K/ 2.58 K/BB ratio; 1.227 WHIP; postseason – 3-1; 1.57 ERA; 46 IP/ 34 H/ 11 BB/ 31 K; 0.978 WHIP

Bert Blyleven  - 287W; 3.31 ERA/ ERA+ 118; 242 CG/ 60 SHO; 4970 IP/ 8.4 H/9; 3701 K/ 2.80K/BB ratio; 1.198 WHIP; postseason – 5-1; 2.47 ERA; 47 IP/ 43 H/ 8 BB/ 36 K; 1.077 WHIP

Catfish Hunter is our most recent pitcher inducted into the HOF without 300 wins.  This is a category Jack Morris would be in.  While Morris has 30 more wins and almost an identical ERA+, Hunter has strong numbers across the board in all other categories.

Significant are his 42 shutouts, a HOF worthy total, his 2.11 K/BB ratio—also over the 2.00 line of excellence, and his incredible 1.134 WHIP, one of the best marks in the second half of the century.

Red Ruffing came to mind because his stats say he was a similar type of pitcher to Jack Morris, and he is in the HOF.  He won 19 more games than Morris, had a similar ERA and ERA+, and pitched a very significant 335 CG and had 45 shutouts.  The shutouts were attained during the live ball era, when a shutout just wasn’t that common.  In fact, Ruffing’s 45 shutouts lead the entire era, including greats like Lefty Grove and Carl Hubbell!

Ruffing was kind of a strikeout guy, like Morris.  His 1,987 Ks actually place him higher in his era than Morris’ 2478 Ks do in the ’70-’92 era.  Ruffing’s postseason career is better than Jack Morris postseason line.

 

The Bottom Line for the HOF -   

There are pitchers in the HOF not as accomplished as Hunter or Ruffing.  In a recent article I show who these pitchers are, but also intimate that we need to set a standard today that is a little more stringent.  I suggest that a pitcher with more than 200 wins can make the HOF if their supporting categories are strong across the board.

In this study, Hunter and Ruffing represent this entry level of HOF pitcher.  I encourage the reader to find more examples to develop a good sense of where the bottom line needs to be.

Take a good look at Jack Morris’ resume for the HOF and compare it to these two entry level HOF members.  Does he fit comfortably with them?

There are other pitchers from Morris’ era that also had resumes for the HOF, but are still on the outside looking in.

Luis Tiant is 25 wins short of Morris.  But he has a better ERA+, 49 shutouts, just about an automatic HOF total, a very similar 2400+ Ks, but a better K/BB ratio, and much better WHIP.  He was a higher quality pitcher than Morris, plain and simple, and easily more dominant.  He was a hero in the World Series as well.

In evaluation and fairness to Morris, I believe Tiant has been overlooked for the HOF, and deserves to be inducted via the veteran’s committee.  But in reality, he is waiting in line at the veteran’s committee door.

Mickey Lolich presents a case for the HOF very close to that of Jack Morris.  He is 37 wins short of Morris’ total, but has an allowing total for HOF consideration of 217, (very similar to today’s Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, and John Smoltz, huh? Also close to Drysdale, Lemon, Newhouser, and Hunter’s totals.) He has an identical ERA+ of 105. 

On the plus side for Lolich, he is much closer to 3,000 Ks at 2832.  His K/BB ratio is very impressive at 2.58, showing he had great command and stuff.  He also had 41 shutouts, a HOF worthy total, and a WHIP significantly better than Jack Morris’ at 1.227.  To me, these stats make up for the fewer wins.

Lolich’ postseason pitching in the ’68 series is of greater consequence than Morris’ one great game. He pitched three complete game victories for the Tigers, and faced down the most feared pitcher in baseball in game seven, Bob Gibson.

If you want to enshrine Jack Morris, then Mickey Lolich should get a pass as well!

Every one of these pitchers has a better postseason record than Jack Morris.  Their accomplishments are greater—each one of them (with the possible exception of Luis Tiant), from his era, and since Morris needs to get in line when it comes to postseason accomplishments—Sandy Koufax, Bob Gibson, Jim Palmer, Catfish  Hunter, Curt Schilling, and John Smoltz all have postseason resumes that place them at the front of that line.

Jack Morris was a strong pitcher.  He had a great career.  If you can comfortably place him over a line for the HOF after studying his comparison stats with these pitchers, then go ahead and vote for him.  He would not be the worst pitcher in the HOF.  He has some strong indicators.

 

Now for Our Bonus Section: How Does Jack Morris Compare to Bert Blyleven?  

Ok Jon Heyman, here’s your straight up comparison:

Let’s see, Morris had a lot of wins—Bert has 287, 33 more than Morris.

Morris was a workhorse pitcher—Bert has 242 CG, 67 more than Morris, and 4,970 IP, over 1,100 more than Morris.

Morris was a great big game pitcher—Blyleven’s postseason record shows a 5-1 record, a 2.47 ERA, and a 1.077 WHIP.  He was part of two world championship teams.  His record shows he raised his game for the postseason against baseball’s best competition.  Other than one great game, Morris record shows he pitched at his regular season level for the postseason.

Morris was more dominant—really?  Shutouts—Blyleven 60, Morris 28; Strikeouts—Blyleven 3,701, Morris 2,478; command of the strike zone—K/BB ratio—Blyleven 2.80, Morris 1.78.

They have the same H/9 rate of 8.4.  However, Blyleven did it for over 1,100 more innings!  There is not one measuring criteria for pitching greatness in which Morris is better than Blyleven—not one!

These two pitchers were on two entirely different levels of pitching.  Morris was good for the '80s, while Blyleven’s K total, shutout total, and K/BB ratio are of historic significance. 

Blyleven’s ERA+ of 118 was accomplished over 4,970 innings.  Morris’ ERA+ of 105 is just not in the same league. 

HOF voters voting for Morris and not Blyleven are not basing their vote on the true pitching records.  They get 10 votes on their ballot.  If they are enamored with Morris, they should at least be giving a vote to Blyleven as well!

Read more MLB news on BleacherReport.com



Baseball Writers Should Implement 50 Percent Rule for HOF Balloting

January 6th, 2010

Congratulations to Andre Dawson on his razor thin selection to the baseball Hall of Fame.

After years of being on the ballot, Dawson finally found himself as the biggest name available outside of Mark McGwire, and the writers graciously punched his ticket for a trip to Cooperstown this summer.

But is this the best way to select baseball immortality?

Dawson received just 14 percent of the vote in his second year of eligibility and the prospects of Hall of Fame admission seemed slim.

But like Jim Rice last year, Andre Dawson has been able to hang around for more than a decade because baseball writers refuse to up the standard for eligibility to a much higher threshold in terms of voter support year to year.

Why doesn't the Baseball Writers simplify the ballot by eliminating any candidate who doesn't receive 50 percent of the vote in their first year of eligibility?

If you fail to receive 50 percent of the vote, how can you claim baseball immortality?

In my mind the process should eliminate marginal candidates from consideration versus creating a yearly discussion on players that seem on the bubble or due to longevity, continue to be considered with just statistics the only standard being used for admission.

The problem seems to be that players are harvesting support over time from writers who did not see you play. Is extending the process in this fashion fair to the Hall or the candidate in question? Should a Jim Rice, Andre Dawson or Bert Blyleven have to wait years for a decision that should be made no later than the five-year waiting perod for ballot consideration?

In the case of Dawson, what changed in his resume or body of work that garnered him over 75 percent of the votes this year, but only received 14 percent in his second year of eligibility?

If the very writers who saw you play don't think you're qualified for eligibility into Cooperstown, why would the opinions of writers 25 years removed from your playing days form a more informed impression of your candidacy to the most exclusive club of athletes in any sport in American history?

What compounds the admissions process is the Veteran's Committee that seems to be even more sympathetic to the plight of players who have lingered on the ballot such as Phil Rizzuto and Bill Mazeroski, both whom in my mind are not legitimate Hall of Famers.

This ability to remain on the ballot for so long denigrates the process and becomes even more embarrassing when individuals such as Tommy Lasorda and Bert Blyleven actively campaign for admission as if they were running for public office!

Hall admission is not a popularity contest. It's enshrinement to the most prestigious of group of individuals ever to play the national pastime.

Let's keep it that way.

Unfortunately, it's turning into an annual argument as to who didn't get admitted, when in fact requirements for admission should be sacred, obvious, and without exception.

There should be no ambiguity as to who should and should not be selected.

Quite frankly, what does Babe Ruth have in common with Tommy Lasorda?

Not much.

Increasing the eligibility requirement to 80 percent of all votes and eliminating all former players who fail to receive 50 percent of the vote will clarify and cleanse the process of any gray areas.

The dumbing down of Hall of Fame enshrinement does nothing for baseball or the process.

Like everything else that's wrong with the game, quality is being trumped by quantity  and an endless argument to keep players on the ballot who have no business being in the Hall of Fame.

Some things need to be reserved for baseball immortality.

That place should be Cooperstown, New York.

 

 

Read more MLB news on BleacherReport.com